ANDREW LIMBONG, HOST:
Bill Burr, Kevin Hart, Dave Chappelle are some of the biggest names participating in the Riyadh Comedy Festival, something Saudi Arabia is branding as the, quote, "biggest comedy festival in the world." The comedians have caught some heat for it, too, the argument being that the festival is covering up the country's human rights abuses. A few comedians actually stepped down or refused the invitation entirely. Other comedians who chose to participate, like Jim Jeffries, made the argument that the event is a step in the right direction.
For Saudi Arabia, this is just one more step in turning the kingdom into an emerging hub for entertainment, business and culture. Just this week, the Saudi government acquired a part of the video game giant EA Games. To help us look at the bigger picture of Saudi Arabia's goals is Andrew Leber. He's a nonresident fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and has studied Saudi Arabia extensively. Welcome to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
ANDREW LEBER: Thank you for having me.
LIMBONG: All right, so I know you're currently writing something on the Riyadh Comedy Festival, but let's take a step back. This is all part of the Saudi government's vision for the year 2030, right? Can you explain to listeners a little bit more about what that vision is?
LEBER: Yeah so Vision 2030 was initially a white paper from 2016, but it's become a kind of catchall term for a wide range of political, social and economic changes that have unfolded in Saudi Arabia over the past decade. But on the social and cultural front, the key feature of that has been efforts by de facto ruler Mohammed bin Salman to pivot the Saudi monarchy away from relying on the legitimation of religious clerics and conservative social restrictions to appease them, to emphasizing instead national identity and viewing entertainment not as something that should be banned from the kingdom, but that should be encouraged.
LIMBONG: How's it been working out for them? Is something like the Riyadh Comedy Festival not just opening the door for more criticism?
LEBER: Yeah, certainly, in terms of external audiences, a lot of these high-profile cultural acquisitions or cultural events do drive international criticism, particularly when it's a very media-focused industry like stand-up comedy. That tends to attract a lot of chatter in the broader global media ecosystem, and that in turn brings scrutiny of Saudi Arabia's human rights record.
LIMBONG: You know, the crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman - he's transformed the country. I think that's fair to say, right? He's sort of decreased the role of religious clerics, and there's a - kind of a push for modernization. But that hasn't necessarily come with addressing all their human rights issues - right? - or even expanding freedom of speec there.
LEBER: So it's quite clear sort of on the domestic political front - has come with closing down the public sphere for any discussion or criticism of the government's policies. And this has even swept up various creators inside - or sort of creative types inside the kingdom as well, including - last year, Abdulaziz Almuzaini, who created a hit television series, and Hatem al-Najjar, an influential podcaster, were both arrested and detained over perceptions that they had run afoul of various ill-defined red lines.
LIMBONG: This week actually marked the seventh anniversary of the killing and alleged dismemberment of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Mohammed bin Salman, you know, first denied these allegations and only accepted responsibility a year after the incident, and he still denies giving the order to kill Khashoggi, but a U.S. intelligence report says that he did approve it. Have these investments in culture been successful in cleaning up Mohammed bin Salman's image?
LEBER: Yeah, I don't think that these investments have been particularly successful in cleaning up Mohammed bin Salman's image, especially where it relates to Jamal Khashoggi. I mean, I think that's reflected in the fact that we're still talking about Jamal Khashoggi's murder. It's brought up pretty much anytime the Saudi government has invested in ventures like this. I think certainly a lot of these ventures or expansion to tourism can change the image of the Saudi people and the country of Saudi Arabia writ large, but I think that's going to be something that continues to haunt the crown prince.
I think that these efforts are driven much more by domestic factors inside Saudi Arabia than in the United States itself. I mean, certainly, it helps to have a major event like this and to try to show external audiences that Saudi Arabia is the kind of place that can host a comedy festival. But something like this is also very much about catering to domestic Saudi audiences. The political bet that Mohammed bin Salman has made is that by offering individuals entertainment options, they're going to care less about the potential for declining material standards of living.
And also, sort of just many Saudis - not all, but many Saudis have been consuming Western media outlets, including stand-up comedy routines, for quite some time. Gabriel Iglesias, for example, who featured in the lineup for the Riyadh Comedy Festival, had a routine - or has had a routine for a while about how a Saudi royal invited him into the country for a private show back in 2012. And already, the admittedly all-male audience knew all of his routines from YouTube videos.
LIMBONG: Andrew Leber is a fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Andrew, thanks so much for taking the time.
LEBER: Thank you for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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