LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Tens of thousands of Swifties in Europe are feeling pretty disappointed today. Taylor Swift's three stadium concerts were supposed to start tonight in Vienna, but they were canceled after officials say they uncovered a plot to attack a big event. And what's bigger than a Taylor Swift concert? Austrian officials say they've made two arrests and have no further suspects.
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FRANZ RUF: (Non-English language spoken).
FADEL: Public safety chief Franz Ruf says authorities found chemical substances, explosives, machetes and knives at the home of a 19-year-old suspect. He had pledged allegiance to the violent extremist group the so-called Islamic State. They found Islamic State and al-Qaida materials at the home of a second suspect, who's 17.
To talk about this, we're joined by Javed Ali, who teaches at the University of Michigan. He's served in the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Department of Homeland Security and the National Security Council. Good morning, and thanks for being on the program.
JAVED ALI: Good morning, Leila. Thank you for having me.
FADEL: So let's start with how serious a threat needs to be for officials to cancel a huge series of events like Taylor Swift's concerts.
ALI: So the fact that these concerts have been canceled, yeah, that is a big deal. And it must have been out of some combination of an abundance of caution and the potential risk that there might be other individuals connected to the two who'd been arrested who are still at large and perhaps were witting of the discussions of the plotting and the plan that was being considered. So it was, in my opinion, based on those kind of factors.
FADEL: The authorities said they made the two arrests, including this 19-year-old. But it's been a while since we've seen the kind of terrorizing attacks that became the group's trademark in Western capitals. What do you make of this suspected plot and what it says about the Islamic State today?
ALI: Well, the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, going back a decade ago - at its height in 2015 into '16, into '17 - it was a very capable organization. And it was able to project external operations into Europe. There was concern that potentially those kind of plots would be directed here. But what ISIS was also very successful at was inspiring hundreds if not thousands of people around the world to at least consider conducting attacks. And then we saw the results of that. So what appears to have occurred in Vienna is more akin to those ISIS-inspired attacks based on the propaganda that they had put out for years and years.
FADEL: Right now, in this moment, is it a fertile recruiting ground, based on global events and the divisions in different Western nations? I mean, I'm thinking of these race riots that are going on in the U.K., the big issues in the Middle East right now.
ALI: So trying to get into the mind of someone who's potentially being radicalized or already radicalized, there's so many different factors that drive individuals on that pathway.
FADEL: Yeah.
ALI: And I spent a long time in my government career trying to understand that, at least with respect to jihadist radicalization. But with every person, there's almost a different story and a different set of factors. Some of them are very individual, and then there are other external factors. So looking at what may have motivated the two individuals who got arrested in Vienna, it could be Israel-Gaza, riots in Europe, a whole set of other factors. But then you also have to look at the individuals themselves. And we just don't know enough details about these two people. Yeah, but it's usually a combination of those two.
FADEL: Javed Ali is a national security expert and associate professor at the University of Michigan's Ford School of Public Policy. Thank you.
ALI: All right. Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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