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The book 'High and Rising' is about the influential hip-hop group De La Soul

A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:

When Marcus J. Moore was growing up in the late 1980s, he heard a piece of music that made him feel less alone. It was De La Soul's landmark debut album, "3 Feet High And Rising."

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ME MYSELF AND I")

DE LA SOUL: (Rapping) What I do ain't make-believe. People say I sit and try. But when it comes to being De La, it's just me, myself and I.

MARCUS J MOORE: They didn't portray themselves as gangsters like N.W.A or smooth-talking ladies' men like Big Daddy Kane or LL Cool J. Instead, De La appealed to the Black alternative, to those who liked rap but also liked jazz and punk and maybe owned a skateboard or played an instrument in the school band. They spoke to those who didn't conform to what Black was supposed to be.

MARTÍNEZ: That's Marcus J. Moore all grown up now. He's an author. He's written "High And Rising: A Book About De La Soul." But it's somewhat of a tragic story. You see, De La was a huge success right out of the gate, but their record label marketed them in bright yellows and pinks, with flowers all over. It gave people the wrong impression that they were some hippy-dippy joke. Now, in response, the group's tone became darker and more bitter on later albums. That lost some fans along the way, including at their own label. For years, most of De La Soul's music was kept off of streaming services like Spotify, which means generations of potential listeners did not have that access. What's been lost a bit was how revolutionary the band was because back in 1989, they brought a much-needed dose of lightheartedness and creativity to hip-hop.

MOORE: Before "3 Feet High And Rising" came out, hip-hop music was pretty linear. You knew what kind of drums were going to be on it. You could probably guess that there was going to be a James Brown sample. Whereas with De La, you're hearing all these different samples from all these various sources, and I think that's where they changed the game. So, you know, on "3 Feet High And Rising," you're hearing a Hall & Oates sample next to a Steely Dan sample, et cetera, et cetera.

MARTÍNEZ: Johnny Cash, right?

MOORE: Johnny Cash.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "THE MAGIC NUMBER")

DE LA SOUL: (Rapping) No more, no less.

MOORE: It showed other rappers that you can make patchwork music. You know, you can pull from all these various sources within the scope of one song, and you can piece it all together.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "THE MAGIC NUMBER")

DE LA SOUL: (Rapping) Three, that's the magic number. Yes, it is. It's the magic No. 3. Somewhere in this hip-hop soul community was born three - Mase, Dove and me. And that's the magic number.

MOORE: "3 Feet High And Rising" showed others that they could have fun in the music. You know, you didn't necessarily always have to have a scowl in your face.

MARTÍNEZ: (Laughter).

MOORE: You didn't always have to have a big gold chain on and a Kangol hat, et cetera. You can just look like you shopped at the thrift shop and put all these crazy samples together and just be regular.

MARTÍNEZ: So following the success of that first album, you'd think that maybe the second album would follow the same kind of pattern; they would just kind of go from there. Not what happened, though. The tone was very, very different. They even titled that second album...

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "INTRO (DE LA SOUL IS DEAD)")

DE LA SOUL: (Rapping) De La Soul is dead.

MARTÍNEZ: How did it go, Marcus, from "3 Feet High And Rising" to "De La Soul Is Dead"?

MOORE: You know, it actually - that title began as an inside joke. The dead meant they were dead tired. But it also became a rallying cry for, OK, the daisy age is dead. We're tired of the flowers. We're tired of the Day-Glo colors. Quite frankly, we're kind of tired of the nonsense that's in the music industry.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "PEASE PORRIDGE")

DE LA SOUL: (Rapping) Yeah, but my tolerance level has now peaked, and now it's time for some heads to get flown. We bring, we bring, we bring, we bring the peace, of course. But pack a nine inside, inside my De La drawers. A picture, picture, picture, picture painted pink could turn to red, to red, to red and blooded quick.

MOORE: Ultimately, I just kind of admire them for taking that creative risk because it was definitely a risk to pretty much kill off the thing that made you successful in the first place.

MARTÍNEZ: There's a push-pull of artistry versus consumerism, right? You want to bring your fans along with you, but what if you try something new and they don't like it? Somehow, I think bands have to almost check out from wanting to make money and just be who they're supposed to be or who they're going to be almost.

MOORE: I totally agree with you, and that kind of reminds me of a quote that - you know, RIP Quincy Jones - that he said, and I'm paraphrasing, where he was like, once you start thinking about money, God leaves the room. And I totally agree with that.

MARTÍNEZ: Now, De La Soul eventually started to have a falling-out with their record label, Tommy Boy. And really, maybe throughout their whole careers, they had a terrible time with the business side of making music. So what happened between De La Soul and Tommy Boy ultimately?

MOORE: There's a sample on "3 Feet High And Rising," and it samples The Turtles, which was this rock band.

(SOUNDBITE OF THE TURTLES SONG, "YOU SHOWED ME")

MOORE: They sampled a small piece of it for, like, this interlude called "Transmitting From Mars."

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "TRANSMITTING LIVE FROM MARS")

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: (Speaking French).

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: (Speaking French).

MOORE: And De La says that they filled out the sample form sheet, and they gave it to Tommy Boy when they had to, like, get all the samples cleared. Tommy Boy claims that De La never told them about that sample, and therefore, they missed it. The Turtles sued De La, like, in a very famous case. So that created a mistrust between De La Soul and Tommy Boy Records moving forward that lasted for decades. It reached a point where De La Soul and Tommy Boy Records parted ways. They kept their music off of streaming until 2023 because they had to get all the samples, like, essentially recleared.

MARTÍNEZ: It hurts to think that they were basically nowhere to be found, right?

MOORE: Yeah. So they lost a couple of decades. But at the same time and in a weird way, it created a buzz around De La, if that makes sense, because I feel like mystery is also marketing. You know what I'm saying?

MARTÍNEZ: (Laughter).

MOORE: ...Where it's just like...

MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.

MOORE: ...If you're not around, then it creates this mystique, and that creates a buzz. Not too long ago, I was teaching a class at NYU. And some of those kids love De La, and I'm like, well, how do you even know who De La is?

MARTÍNEZ: (Laughter).

MOORE: Like, you were born when the music was gone. And they would say the same thing - like, no, my uncle had, like, a rip of "De La Soul Is Dead," and he would play it in the car. I think that also kind of speaks to the ubiquity of De La Soul, though, because it's just a group that folks love, and it's a group that people want to see win. And that's what happened with them ultimately.

MARTÍNEZ: Where would we be, Marcus, without our cool uncles...

(LAUGHTER)

MOORE: Right.

MARTÍNEZ: ...That help us, you know, with all the great stuff from the past, right?

MOORE: All the old stuff in the basement that we thought was done, it's all back now.

MARTÍNEZ: Marcus J. Moore is the author of "High And Rising: A Book About De La Soul." Marcus, thank you.

MOORE: Thank you so much.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "A ROLLER SKATING JAM NAMED 'SATURDAYS'")

DE LA SOUL: (Rapping) Back once more with the wallop in the score. Must I ride and rip? Should I make you rock your hip? Reviver of a roller boogie in a rink. And sure to make you think about the times to scope fun instead of... Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

A Martínez
A Martínez is one of the hosts of Morning Edition and Up First. He came to NPR in 2021 and is based out of NPR West.
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