JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
Thirty years ago, a young gospel singer from Detroit named CeCe Winans released her first solo album.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ALONE IN THE PRESENCE")
CECE WINANS: (Singing) I'm safe and sound, serene and calm.
SUMMERS: That album, "Alone In His Presence," went platinum, and it won her a Grammy.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ALONE IN HIS PRESENCE")
WINANS: (Singing) My secret place...
SUMMERS: Today, CeCe Winans is the bestselling female gospel artist in history.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
WINANS: (Singing) Times are harder now than they've ever been before.
SUMMERS: That's Winans at NPR's Tiny Desk the other day. She came by to help celebrate Black Music Month, and after the show, we stole a few minutes with her in the ALL THINGS CONSIDERED studios.
First of all, I just have to say, you took us all to church today, so thank you for bringing that energy, that positivity, that spirituality into the NPR office.
WINANS: Oh, well, thank you. I had a great time, great audience. We had fun.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
WINANS: (Singing) I'm here to let you know there's always hope for you and me.
SUMMERS: I mean, when I think about gospel music, it's not just something we listen to. It's something we feel with our bodies. It's something we experience. And when I think about growing up in the church, I've always associated it with this really big sound, the big choirs, the big congregation singing and clapping along. So I do have to ask, what was your first thought when you found out you would be playing at a tiny desk without any of that?
WINANS: (Laughter) Well, I just wanted it to come off good, you know, because it is a different setting. But then it took me back. It really took me back 'cause growing up in the Winans household, we did a lot of rehearsing in our basement, you know? And in your basement, you don't have the microphones, you know, and a lot of our friends would be around. So actually, today at Tiny Desk really took me back, and I just said I'm going to have fun. I'm going to enjoy it, you know, just sing from the heart because I think sometimes we try to make everything too perfect, you know? And I think the most powerful thing is when it just comes from the heart and you're having fun. And that's what we did.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
WINANS: (Singing) Alone in the presence of you.
SUMMERS: Now, you played an incredible roster of songs for us, including "Alone In His Presence," which is from your debut album that has the same name. It came out 30 years ago. I remember listening to it growing up.
WINANS: Wow. Were you even alive? (Laughter).
SUMMERS: I - believe it or not, I was (laughter). I just wonder, three decades later, what does that music mean to you now?
WINANS: Oh, man, it gets - it means more and more every year, every decade. You know, when I get to go back and visit my younger self, I can just nod my head and say, yep. Yep, his presence is definitely my hiding place, being in the spirit of God. And I live a life to please him, and that has brought me good success, you know? And good success is not always your songs being on the top of the charts, but good success is being able to go home and have peace in your home and be able to sleep, you know, and just experience peace.
SUMMERS: You have, though, also experienced so much commercial success, and you kind of time traveled back to the present today with us and played a few more songs from your most recent record "More Than This," which won you another Grammy for best gospel album. And...
WINANS: Yeah.
SUMMERS: ...This one's interesting 'cause it's also a live album recorded with an audience. Tell us about that choice.
WINANS: Oh, man. I love being in the studio 'cause I love being able to do it over and over and over and over again. But there's nothing like a live audience (laughter). The live audience will pull things out of you that you didn't even know you had. There's nothing more powerful than people coming together and worshiping - you know, lifting their hands, crying out to God and everybody singing together. And that's what people are feeling when they listen to this live record. They are feeling the spirit moving, but they're feeling the unity of the house.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
WINANS: (Singing) Sometimes I fall to my knees and pray.
UNIDENTIFIED MUSICAL ARTISTS: (Vocalizing).
WINANS: (Singing) Come, Jesus, come. Let today be the day.
SUMMERS: You recently sang one of the songs from that album, "Come Jesus Come," with the gospel legend Shirley Caesar.
WINANS: Yeah (laughter).
SUMMERS: I have to know what it was like to work with her. I see this huge smile on your face.
WINANS: Oh, my God. Now, that's who I grew up on. That's who paved the way for me. And, man, when I tell you she's still got it - I was just so honored that she said yes, that she would sing it with me. And when she came into the studio, I mean, she opened up her mouth and, man, every note is just seasoned with salt, pepper, green pepper, onion. I have no words. I'm just totally grateful that we got a chance to sing "Come Jesus Come." And it is powerful.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
WINANS: (Singing) We need you right now. Come and turn this around. Deep down I know this world isn't home. Come, Jesus, come.
(APPLAUSE)
WINANS: All right, here we go.
(Singing) I am the one. Yes, I created the whole universe.
SUMMERS: I think about, in the three decades that you've been making music solo, all the different sort of ebbs and flows of what makes gospel music what it sounds like when you started out. You were part of the movement that ushered in contemporary gospel...
WINANS: Yeah, yeah.
SUMMERS: ...Fusing the traditional with the modern. So when you look at gospel today in 2025, what do you think the next evolution is going to be? What's the next turn?
WINANS: I don't know. I don't know. When I look at the young artists that are out now, they are incredible. And I just don't think there's a limit to creativity. We have the rap, we have the contemporary, we have the traditional, and we have so many new things that are evolving. And I just think it's exciting. I don't think there's a limit to what's going to happen. I just think it keeps getting better.
SUMMERS: I think what I love most about gospel music is this strand of hope that runs through all of it...
WINANS: Come on.
SUMMERS: ...The hopefulness, the idea of turning to a higher power outside yourself, the idea that you are not in control and that there is a God that is responsive, as you said, to our faith. I just wonder, where do you find hope? Where do you see hope? And how does your music contribute to that hope?
WINANS: Well, you hit it on the head. You know, I get hope from what I do. That's one of the privileges in doing gospel music because it is a form of music that is always uplifting, always encouraging, reminds us that we're loved. Like you said, reminds us that we have a God who is on our side, and if we just hold on, you know, the light will come, the sun will come. A weeping may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning. And it's in that same good news that I find my hope. I don't have to fear about what's going to happen because I serve a God who knows the end from the beginning. So I can actually experience true peace of mind and heart because of that relationship. So my hope is in him.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
WINANS: (Singing) I wish I could tell you, wish I could describe it. But I can't contain it, can't keep it to myself.
SUMMERS: CeCe Winans, thank you so much for blessing us with this Tiny Desk concert. It's been such a pleasure.
WINANS: You got it. Thank you. Great talking to you.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
WINANS: (Singing) Not enough words to ever say what I've found.
SUMMERS: And you can find her full Tiny Desk performance for Black Music Month at npr.org.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
WINANS: (Singing) And glorious and holy, he is merciful and powerful. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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