ADRIAN FLORIDO, HOST:
For years, the Kremlin has been cracking down on internet usage in Russia. It's banned Facebook and Instagram. It's slowed down YouTube, making it harder for users to access. Now Russian authorities are on a campaign to get every citizen to download a state-controlled messaging app called MAX that can make calls, send text messages, transfer money, just about anything you can think of.
To talk about the implications of this, we've called investigative journalist Andrei Soldatov. He's the co-author of "The Red Web," which is all about how the Kremlin is trying to control Internet usage in Russia. Andrei, welcome.
ANDREI SOLDATOV: Hi, thank you for having me.
FLORIDO: Tell us about this app that the Kremlin is pushing - MAX. What is it, and how does it work?
SOLDATOV: So the idea is to have several big apps which would replace Western-made applications for daily usage of Russian citizens. And MAX was designated by the Russian government in July as a national messenger, which means that it would be and should be an access point for ordinary Russians to all kinds of online services from banks to the services provided by the state.
FLORIDO: Step back for a second to give us some more context here. Why is this something that Vladimir Putin would want to push on the Russian citizenry?
SOLDATOV: Well, I think the government's logic is that they finally understood that the biggest threat posed by the internet is about the numbers, that some sensitive information could be shared almost immediately by millions and millions of people. And for that, to put these people under control, the government wants to basically reeducate the Russian population, to force them to use and rely, in their daily lives, on something they would turn to if they face something really dramatic and extraordinary.
For instance, if you have a drone attacks in your town, you would immediately be prompted to post something, and you would use, obviously, the app you already have on your phone, and the government would have an option to shut down any conversation on this application. That's exactly what they want to do.
FLORIDO: So potentially a lot easier for the government to censor the sorts of things that Russians are talking about amongst themselves...
SOLDATOV: Absolutely.
FLORIDO: ...Make sure that they don't make it to Western audiences. How are Russians reacting to this pressure to download this app? I imagine they understand that, you know, using it means that they could and probably will be monitored. Why would they use it?
SOLDATOV: Well, right now, we don't see a lot of enthusiasm about this app. For instance, just today, we got news that in the city of Yekaterinburg, students of the local university refused to install this app, and now they are threatened with expulsion from the university.
FLORIDO: Beyond privacy, are there any other potential casualties to Russian freedoms that would come from using a state-run super app?
SOLDATOV: Yes, absolutely, because once you install this app, it makes your device completely compromised. So it's not only about the messages you exchange while you are using this app. It's about your device.
The other problem is that nobody actually understands what kind of reach this app has to, say, your accounts in the banks and state services or the services provided by the government. So again, that makes things very, very dangerous.
But I think the biggest reason why the government is pushing this app is just to have an option to silence a conversation about anything sensitive in the country. They would have a means to put down this conversation, to shut it down completely.
FLORIDO: Well, I've been speaking with Andrei Soldatov. He is a longtime Russian investigative reporter and the co-author of "The Red Web," a book about how the Kremlin is trying to control the internet in Russia. Andrei, thanks for joining us.
SOLDATOV: Oh, thank you for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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