Pat Duggins-- The Alabama public radio news team is known for its major journalism investigations. We've been doing them for over a decade. Our most recent national award winning effort was an eight month investigation into Alabama's new US House seat in the rural Black Belt region of the state. The new voting map was ordered by the US Supreme Court so Alabama would be more fair to black residents. Now, anybody who follows the news might reasonably be thinking— okay? The same high court that overturned Roe versus Wade and ended affirmative action in the nation's universities told Alabama that they needed to treat black voters better. Even the plaintiffs in the legal case of Allen versus Milligan told APR news they were gobsmacked they won. The goal after that legal victory was to make sure the new minority congressional district works. The point there was to keep conservative opponents from having the excuse to try to flip the voting map back to the GOP. And that's a moving target that could change at any moment, even as we speak, the job of managing all of these issues now falls to Congressman Shomari Figures. He was elected last November as the first US House member in Alabama's redrawn district two. Shomari Figures joins me next on APR notebook.
Pat-- Representative Figures. Thank you so much for talking to me.
U.S. House member Shomari Figures--Thank you. Thank you, Pat for having us.
Pat-- I was going over the coverage that went along with your election, sir. And if I missed anything, let me know. You are one of only four African American members of Congress in Alabama history. The very first time that two African Americans have been in the US House in Alabama at the same time ever. And, the Guardian newspaper even went as far as to say that you're the first African American to represent the mobile area since 1832. So, I guess my first question is, no pressure, right?
Rep. Figures-- No pressure at all. No pressure at all. But I mean, at the end of the day, look, it's a blessing and a enormous opportunity and privilege to be able to represent the people of this district, the people of the state of Alabama, and the people of my you know, my hometown community, like where I grew up, the community that I attribute with being responsible for making me who I am today and forming the views of the world that I have today. So I'm grateful to be here and grateful to be part of that history.
Pat-- I noticed one of the first bills that you sponsored was the Rural Hospital Stabilization Act of 2025 and also noticed that during the US Senate debate on the so called Big, beautiful bill, there was a lot of discussion about protecting rural hospitals from Medicaid cuts. My question is, what comfort does that give you that people are talking about rural hospitals nationally, and not just Alabama in the South?
Rep. Figures-- It certainly gives me a lot of comfort in knowing that the issue is one that's been raised to the forefront of conversation. But what gives me less comfort is the actual action that's being taken to address it. We know that our rural hospitals are struggling, and we know what rural hospitals mean in those communities, in those counties. I mean most counties, I mean most counties, most rural counties in the state of Alabama, the vast majority of them only have one hospital remaining. So if they lose that hospital, it is a significant blow, not just from a healthcare access standpoint, but from an economic standpoint. No business wants to be in a community that doesn't have a hospital. No residents want to live there. No developers want to develop there. It's hard to recruit new industry there. And so, you know, although it's a great, you know, great thing that people are talking about, and we have to get more serious about action. And that's what that bill does, providing direct federal resources to rural hospitals to help stabilize their situation so they can remain the vital part of community infrastructure that they are.
Pat-- Sir, every time there's a problem, there's a number of different answers that could possibly address it. I've heard some people say, okay, for rural health, why not beef up public transportation in order to get people to where the hospitals are? And then here you are with your bill stabilizing the hospitals. What drove that strategy when you put the bill together.
Rep. Figures-- I think it's, it's driven from the standpoint of just talking to real people who live real lives, and being a real person who lives in life. If I have a medical emergency at my home in mobile I don't want to have to wait for public transportation to get me to a hospital. That's 45 minutes, hour, hour and a half away, in some cases, in this district. And similarly speaking, when a family is looking to relocate, they don't want to come to a community where you tell them, hey, you know, 45 minutes to the nearest hospital, right? Or if you have elderly people who grew up in a community who want to retire back to the same community that they grew up in, you don't want and no, nor would you as a child, want your parents retiring back to a community. US where they have to rely on, you know, you know, whether it's public transportation or whatever means of transportation to get to a hospital that's 45 minutes to an hour away, it's just not acceptable. And so that's what drove it, and that's what's going to continue to drive it. Like, finding alternative hospitals for our rural communities is not the solution. It's keeping the hospitals that we have in our rural communities that may force us to look at, you know, scaling some of the services and operations that are at the hospitals, but we cannot afford to just throw up our hands and let hospitals go.
Pat-- So all that being said, Sir, how's the first term going?
Rep. Figures-- First term is going well. It's going well like I say, every day is a is a privilege and a blessing to be here to represent the people of Alabama and the people of District Two, even in this environment, we're working very diligently on ways to try to still be productive and still be effective. That rural hospital bill that we've been discussing that's a bipartisan piece of legislation introduced with another Republican member of Congress, Mike Rogers, here in the Alabama delegation, is also on that bill, because issues like rural hospitals, issues like lowering the cost of living for the average everyday American, those are not political issues. Those are issues that are affecting Democrats and Republicans and black people and white people and men and women and old and rich and poor, all the same and young people. And so we we have to do everything that we can to work, to be productive, and that's what we're committed to doing.
Pat-- After your election, I read another quote from you about making every moment in office count. Now, as we speak, there are opponents of the minority majority district two congressional map, and they're still fighting to flip it back to the GOP and radio being radio, you know, we're taping this in late June, so Heaven only knows what's going to transpire before we actually air but, but all of that notwithstanding, you're in office now, and I was wondering how tough is it to set an agenda, not knowing that the map that you serve today might not be the map that's there tomorrow.
Rep. Figures-- Not tough at all. Not tough at all because we got elected to represent a certain part of the state of Alabama in district two, and that's what we spend our time doing. I worry about things that I can control. I do not stress out about things that I cannot control. The what the court is going to decide ultimately, is something that's outside of my control. Obviously, we, you know, we feel good about it, like we're optimistic. We were hopeful that the map will remain the same, but at the end of the day, the map changes or not, there's still people in district two that need effective federal representation. There's still hospitals that need to be saved, there's still jobs that need to be created, there's industry that needs to be supported, their rights that have to be protected, and so we're here to do that work every single day, for every moment that we're in this chair.
Pat-- Were you surprised that the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Alan versus Milligan and created the new district?
Rep. Figures-- Look, I think you know, in tracking the case as you as you track any cases throughout the throughout the federal judiciary, you never know what's going to happen. And so this is just another example of that. I mean, they upheld that decision, you know, I think what is, you know, what at the end of the day, you know, where this gets us is a place that, you know, they saw the same struggle that we have in the state of Alabama in terms of making sure that communities have effective representation and appropriate representation. And so, you know, we fully expect the law to be enforced every time a case is before the Supreme Court. And so we were, we were certainly happy with the decision that came out.
Pat-- Before joining Congress, you were Legislative Counsel for former US Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio, I believe during the three years of the first Trump administration. How did that help you manage the politics that you're dealing with now, or could it?
Rep Figures-- I think it certainly could, and certainly did. I think it certainly gives you insight into what to expect this, you know, stepping into this role was not as much of a culture shock for me as a freshman member, having been here as a staffer to a senior member of the Senate during the first three years. So we kind of knew what to expect, sort of, you know, the strategy that the Trump administration sort of deploys that's a little bit unique from other administrations is that they throw so many major policy changes, so many major decisions, so many major actions out at the exact same time that it makes it tough to sort of pinpoint what you're going to focus in On and respond to and so that part is something that you know was was not new to me and coming into this role. And so I think it helps set the stage for my mindset in terms of approaching this administration. But more importantly, it gave me insight into how these buildings work, the Senate and the House right and what's effective in terms of trying to build partnerships, in terms of trying to push legislation through, in terms of trying to find the resources at the federal government level to push down to your district. And so we are grateful for that experience, and we're trying to put it to use to the best that we can every day.
Pat-- From the outside looking in, it looks as though that, you know, the atmosphere in the US House is, you know, is just…at least contentious. But I was kind of wondering, being on the inside, is it, is it, is it that bad in terms of you getting along with other members of Congress, or is it worse? Or what do you think?
Rep. Figures—Look, we work with everybody that we possibly can, we literally do. I am, I am just committed to the idea that at the end of the day, like screaming and shouting only gets you so far, right? People are still expecting you to produce for your district. And yes, there are certain things that we have to scream and shout about and that we will scream and shout about, but at the end of the day, we were put here to be effective and bring resources and attention to the things that matter the most in our district. I view this role every single day as as as almost like a city council. I care about what happens with the district. First question that I always ask myself is, how will this impact the district? What can we do to improve lives in the district? And through that lens, you find yourself working on issues that transcend political minds, political parties and political ideologies, and you find yourself trying to work with people you know from all walks of life, regardless of what their beliefs are, and trying to further things that are going to benefit your district.
Pat-- On that subject, getting back to the big, beautiful bill for a moment, there's there's talk that the final product and its ongoing impact could impact Medicaid, could impact snap. And there are people who talk to my newsroom who will say that, you know, over a million Alabamians benefit from from Medicaid, and I think about a half million or so utilize snap. Is, is all of that, in your view, kind of like being lost in the debate, or what?
Rep. Figures-- Look I think the underlying, uh, concern that I have with this bill is that it is premised on removing benefits away from people who need those benefits and from very worthy programs, anti hunger programs making sure people who don't have the financial means have access to health care. It's removing those benefits all to provide benefits for the wealthiest of people in this country in the form of tax breaks, and it's not being done in a manner that's actually going to reduce the federal deficit, not it's actually going to add about $5 trillion to the national debt over the next decade. And to me, there's just a significant disconnect and how that impacts real people, because there are worthwhile things in this country that are worth going into $5 trillion of debt over tax breaks for the wealthiest of Americans. Is not that right? Rural hospitals, that's worth it, education, that's worth it, making sure our men and women in the military are protected and trained and taken care of, and our veterans are served. That's worth it. Tax breaks to ultra wealthy millionaires and billionaires is not worth the position that we're putting the future of this country in, and certainly not worth sacrificing the health, safety, and, many cases, the ability for some people to put food on the table some of the poorest people in this country. And so that's my problem with this bill. It takes away a lot, and it's hitting people in real ways, and it will hit more than just poor people. To be clear, Alabama is already a state that's well behind the curve from a Medicaid standpoint, we are one of the handful of states that did not expand Medicaid covering fewer people in the state of Alabama than in other states. We have some of the worst healthcare outcomes in the country. Literally, State of Alabama has roughly the third or fourth lowest life expectancy in America by by some decimal points, right? So that means we literally live, on average, just a few weeks or months longer than the lowest life expectancy in the United States. That is not acceptable, and if we don't care to fix that, if we don't care about that, then who are we as a, as a, as a state and where we as a nation? I think we can do that. I think we can do better than sacrificing health care for anyone just to provide tax breaks that are ultimately going to leave us in more debt than we came into. And so that's my problem with that bill and the underlying theory of the case that my Republican colleagues are pushing.
Pat-- Before your election, the APR newsroom spent about eight months looking into the issue surrounding district two, and one of the things that came out with that was something that your colleague, Terri Sewell, is dealing with now. In addition to being on radio, we're also a podcast, so for the listener living outside of Alabama. She's the other democrat and the other African American, serving along with you in the U.S. House for Alabama. Representative Sewell and her staff talked at length about the phone calls they get from African American voters from outside her district. Now, the reason that we were presented with was that for good or for ill, these black voters simply preferred to talk to Ms. Sewell instead of the white Republicans that represent the districts that they happen to be living in. I was curious, are you and your staff getting any of these out of district calls like Representative Sewell?
Rep. Figures-- Look, we get calls from outside the district, from outside the state, on on a lot of different issues, and at the end of the day, we're committed to helping people. Our primary focus will always be, is and will always be, ensure that we're assisting the citizens of District Two in the state. But at the end of the day, anyone that calls into this office, we're going to help them. We're going to point them in the right direction, to do everything that we can to make sure that they have a solution. But we understand that we that we represent District Two, but as with every member of Congress, we have an obligation to the state of Alabama as a whole.
Pat—There was something that you said the night that you won your election. You talked about the legacy that your family had laid out even before you were born. And anybody who tuned into the Steven Spielberg movie, you know, Lincoln with Daniel Day Lewis, there's this scene where Lincoln's talking to two young telegraph operators, and they ask them, you know, are we fitted by the times that we're born into considering what your father did, what your mother did, your your uncle? How does that figure into what it is that you're doing and what you want to do now that you're a member of Congress?
Rep. Figures-- Look, I think my my family background certainly is something that shaped me, molded me, formed me into who I am. It laid the groundwork of expectations, and also, you know, offered me opportunities to be able to go off and have the type of career and education that I've had in my life. As you know, I followed my father's footsteps to University of Alabama's law school, and that is something that I am eternally grateful for. My father, my mother, my uncle, and even my grandparents and other members of my family who are not in the public sphere, they all like played a role in shaping and creating the environment that you know, from which I was produced. And so I take it as a wear it as a badge of honor, but also take it as a challenge to go out and do things, do things that help your community. I believe, at the end of the day, like you have to ask your yourself the question like, how do I take what God has blessed me with and put it to use for the benefit and betterment of people and places that mean the most to you. And you know, that's a ideology that I was kind of raised with. As you always have to ask what you can take, what God has given you, how you can use it for the benefit of others, to leave a better world. And when I look at situations that my father came up in where, you know, he went to segregated schools, integrated University of Alabama's law school. When I look at what my mother has has been and being a woman in the space of electoral politics in the state of Alabama, where there's historically been very few, especially at the state level, when I look at fights that my family's had from a civil rights perspective, suing the Klan and making sure that, you know, people who committed hate crimes were prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law with my uncle. You know, it's something that it's hard not to be grateful for that, and it's hard not to take an obligation amongst yourself make sure you're leaving a better world for your children than you walked into because they went through so much at such a darker time than I have, and so that is certainly is significant fuel for me.
Pat-- Every every child is, no doubt, proud of their father. But I mean, your father bankrupted the Ku Klux Klan in Alabama. Do you remember at what age that finally hit you that that he had made such a such a monumental contribution to civil rights?
Rep. Figures-- I grew up under the shadow of that case my entire life. I honestly, like my earliest formative years, I remember that case being discussed and for the listeners who are not aware, I hate to just talk about that case without talking about the man, the young man who was the center of that case, a young man named Michael Donald, was 19 years old and mobile literally did nothing wrong. Was walking to a gas station to buy some cigarettes and was kidnapped by the Klan and lynched the you know, that case was so powerful and so monumental in mobile and in Alabama, and honestly in this country, in terms of what it ultimately led to, in terms of civil liability being handed down to the Klan for that case, and criminal liability as well. There was one person was actually executed for doing that state of Alabama, and others went to prison. I don't know what age I was when it settled, but I know it was something that was always there. I can look to I can remember as a child, my father was still receiving Christmas cards from the clan, so it never it never left. It never left. And it was certainly something that that helped define, I think, my father's career, but also, I think, put some guardrails around my own life.
Pat-- And you know, your father passed on when you were young. Do you ever think about what he might think, or is thinking in terms of what you've accomplished?
Rep. Figures-- Now, look, I would hope, you know, I would hope to think that that he's proud of, of the of the pathway that that he started. Here, I would hope to think that he is proud of the way we have, you know, taken what we've learned, taking the opportunities that we've been afforded, the privilege that I've been afforded through life, to not only be his son, but to be my mother's son, and to grow up in a public sphere, and being able to utilize that for good. I mean, I took before I ran for Congress. I mean, my entire career, for the most part, had been in public service, right? I had, I had worked across all three branches of federal government, whether on the legislative side, the executive side, and a little bit of time in the judicial side. As a federal law clerk, you know, it's my hope is that he would be proud, that he would be happy.I do wish I could talk to him at times to see, you know, what strategies they would employ, because, unfortunately, we're fighting a lot of the same battles now, or very similar battles that he fought, and we're seeing a lot of the progress that they fought for, especially in the courts. You know, we're seeing efforts to unwind and roll back some of that progress, and so we're committed to, you know, not giving up that fight, and committed to living up to his name and my mother's name and all of those who played a role in creating this world that we have today.
Pat-- Speaking of your mother, State Senator Vivian figures, did I read right that you were knocking on doors to help her city council race when you were seven?
Rep. Figures-- Yeah, let's see that would have been (19) 94 when she won. So I would have been about, yeah, about eight, nine when she was running. But even younger than that, I can remember knocking on doors for my dad. You know, back in here, I guess late 80s, early 90s. Yeah, late 80s, early 90s. I can like, my earliest campaign memories are literally jumping off the back of pickup trucks with yard signs. And this is back in the day. You'll probably remember this back in the day yard signs didn't come on metal stakes. They came on the wood, on the wooden, the wooden stakes. And so you jump off, and you have to have a hammer. And you know, in the wooden, wooden state political science, and so I those are my earliest campaign memories that I have. But yes, we were, we were, we were always out there, the knocking on the door part. I mean, did they give you, like, some, some, some, some talking points to say, or do they just say, just go out there and say what you think of your mother and your father and that. How did that go? I don't remember the instructions from back then, but I look, I remember canvassing and kind of going door to door has always been a very enjoyable experience, because you really got to see people, people who were excited, people who were proud of what your parents were doing, people who were excited and proud to see young children out there, you know, helping to get out the message. And so I, I like to think that I was a pretty effective canvasser and turned a lot of votes.
Pat—So before Congress, and before, before your, your time with Sherrod Brown, you, you worked in the the Obama administration. And I'm kind of curious. I mean, everybody seems to say that that first visit to the Oval Office is really something that they never forget. Do you remember yours?
Rep. Figures-- I do. But more so than the Oval Office, it's the it's the it's the first experience for me of walking onto the complex, the White House complex, and that that is something that you just can't replicate in the first experience for me, doing that would have been an interview, because I don't think I'd gone to any events before then. But when you, when you go in and that gate closes behind you, like there's a moment in that process where it kind of dawns on you that you were literally standing in the centerpiece of of power of the world, right, and of so much history being there. And think of the the people who, you know, call the White House home, you know, throughout history. And you think of the people who have walked through those same gates for meetings and and you think it really dawns on, you know, it really hit you at some point that, you know, when you're born in Mobile, Alabama, and you grow up in the South,you're not expected to be on the other side of that gate. Like, that's just not, that's just not what you expect life to turn out to be to where, you know, you're walking in the white house one day, right? Like 99% of America has never been to the White House. And you know, it's probably 99.8% of state of Alabama has never been to the White House, right? So it really hits you on just like how blessed and privileged you are to be there and in going into the Oval Office. I mean, that was, you know, that that's,
it's the first thing that jumps out in terms of remembering it, is the thought that this room is not as big as I thought it was on TV. That's the first thing. But the same can be said about the White House as a whole. A lot of people say it's much smaller than they envision it. You know, the first time they see it, but the Oval Office is is not big you know, whether it's the first time we're walking into the old or walking into the situation room or walking. Walking into the East Wing, or, you know, or walking through the West Wing. It's all a very special experience.
Pat—Sir, as we begin to wrap up a confession here, I'm the youngest of seven children, and in my adulthood, I would occasionally be razzed by my siblings about how when I was this age, this and this and this would go on. Did I read right that your family's history and public service goes back so far that US House member Benny Thompson, the future chairman of the January 6 investigation when you were young, you know he would, he would talk to you, he would put you on his knee, that sort of thing. And my question is, have you bumped into him since becoming a member of Congress? And has he reminded you about that, or have you reminded him about that?
Rep. Figures-- Oh, absolutely, absolutely. So. Congressman Thompson was a friend of my father, and he was in that first major wave of African Americans that were elected after the 1990 census. This is when names like this is when Alabama got its first African American member of Congress since Reconstruction, Earl Hilliard came in in that class. James Clyburn came in in that class, Benny Thompson, so and so many others, so many other names that people would recognize. He has reminded me about it. But he was not just he Sanford Bishop, who's also from Alabama. He's from mobile, represents the Columbus, Georgia area. He came in in that same class as well, but these were people who knew my father from from, you know, back in the days of the struggles that they were doing together, being part of that generation, that sort of late edge of the civil rights movement, but coming into that first wave of African Americans who were charged with taking advantage of the rights that have been secured through the Civil Rights Movement, and that that, in and of itself, was a different type of struggle, a different type of fight. And so they, they bonded over the years through those common, those common struggles. But I see Congressman Thompson pretty much daily up here, and it's good to see him. It's always good to see and talk to people my father, from, you know, from back in those days.
Pat-- Well Representative, before we finish up here, is there anything that I should anything that I should have asked you that I didn't?
Rep Figures-- Is Alabama going to win a national championship this year?
Pat-- What do you think?
Rep. Figures-- Yes, I think we got the best receiver in the country, and Ryan Williams, you know, I think we got the best facilities in the country. I think we have the best fruiting class in the country, but we got to do good things this year.
Pat-- Representative Shomari figures, thank you so much. And and roll tide, and thank you so much for talking to me.
