MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
As you might imagine, we've been reaching out to lawmakers from both parties as the shutdown continues. Today, we have Republican congresswoman Lisa McClain of Michigan. She is the chair of the House Republican Conference, which is responsible for communicating the party's message to members. She's with us now. Congresswoman, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us.
LISA MCCLAIN: Oh, thanks for having me.
MARTIN: So you've called on Michigan's two Democratic senators to help end the government shutdown. We've heard from Sam's piece that there aren't really any public talks going on, but what about privately? Are there any communications back and forth there?
MCCLAIN: You know, there are communications. You know, there's always communications. You don't necessarily see those in, you know, out in the media. But people are trying to talk. People are, you know, voicing their concerns, and, you know, I know it appears that both sides are pretty dug in, and I think they are. But at the end of the day, we got to get a resolution to move forward.
MARTIN: Any Democrats you think could be persuaded to join the Republicans in passing what we're calling - what's been called the clean continuing resolution?
MCCLAIN: Yeah. I think there will be. I think Saturday is - after they get through Saturday, I think the temperature will die down a little bit...
MARTIN: Why Saturday?
MCCLAIN: ...And people will be - oh, there's that no kings rally that...
MARTIN: Oh.
MCCLAIN: ...Everyone is, you know, having. And we just - we got to stop the games. We got to stop the showmanship, and we got to get back to working for the American people. And that, I think, is my frustration is our strategy was when we passed the Clean CR, typically, and I think this piece gets really lost, the party who's in charge - and both sides do it, Michel - when you pass a CR, the parties in charge puts a lot of extra policies in there, usually partisan policies. And then what happens is you go to the negotiation table and you're like, all right, I'll take this out, I'll add this in. What we did was a totally different strategy. We said, we're not going to do any gimmicks. We're not going to play any games. We are literally going to pass the exact Clean CR that everybody voted for under the Democratic spending levels in March. We didn't put one policy writer in there. And that's why everyone's like, well, why aren't you negotiating? We have nothing to negotiate...
MARTIN: Well...
MCCLAIN: ...Because we didn't play any games to begin with.
MARTIN: Well, let me just jump in here because the Democrats argue that the issue here - the timing is really relevant here. The issue is that these health insurance premiums...
MCCLAIN: Yes.
MARTIN: ...Which people get under the Affordable Care Act will rise. Now, about half a million people in your state...
MCCLAIN: You're right.
MARTIN: ...Have health insurance through the Affordable Care Act marketplaces, premiums will rise...
MCCLAIN: You're 100% right.
MARTIN: ...Without these subsidies. So my question to you is how do you want to address that? How do you want to address that?
MCCLAIN: This is why - this is - exact reason why we passed the Clean CR. No games, no gimmicks. We can get government to work how it is supposed to work. Not backroom deals. But if you pass the Clean CR, that's why we put it on the table - right? - we can negotiate. We can go through committees. We can have these debates. We don't need to have the American people held hostage because of this.
MARTIN: OK, but with Republicans in control of both houses of Congress and the White House, why doesn't the caucus address this issue one way or another?
MCCLAIN: We are.
MARTIN: What's the Republican proposal to address this premium increase?
MCCLAIN: Well, we actually have proposals to address the premium increase...
MARTIN: What is it?
MCCLAIN: ...That's why...
MARTIN: What is it?
MCCLAIN: ...We need to open the government up...
MARTIN: What is it?
MCCLAIN: ...So we can...
MARTIN: Give me the headline.
MCCLAIN: Well, the head - there's not a headline. And the reason why there's not a headline is because since 2010 when we put Obamacare in, I mean, it doesn't work, right? Obamacare was supposed to fix healthcare, and it's done the exact opposite. We've seen this...
MARTIN: OK, the president - OK, but in the first...
MCCLAIN: But let me finish.
MARTIN: In the first trump term...
MCCLAIN: But let me finish.
MARTIN: ...You have both houses of Congress...
MCCLAIN: OK.
MARTIN: ...And the White House. In this Trump term, both Houses of Congress and the White House, how do you want to fix it?
MCCLAIN: Do you want me to answer...
MARTIN: Yes, please.
MCCLAIN: ...Or are you going to interrupt me again?
MARTIN: Yes, Ma'am.
MCCLAIN: (Laughter).
MARTIN: I'm definitely going to want you to answer.
MCCLAIN: So what I would say is, this isn't a silver-bullet fix. I mean, premiums since Obamacare has been put in, we've had to subsidize it, right? And the only people who are getting rich on this are the insurance companies, and the American people are suffering. So this is going to take just a quick second. It's not going to be done in 30 seconds with more subsidies. It's going to take some time to overhaul. And that's why we need to get back to work. Trust me, if there was a silver-bullet fix, we would do it. But as you know, we have a very diverse conference, right? So what works in one area may not work for another. And that's why this is so critical that we get back to work. But this isn't a healthcare fight. This is a funding fight. This isn't an AG bill fight or a transportation and infrastructure fight. This is a funding fight. So let's deal with the funding, open up the government, and then let's fix what is wrong.
MARTIN: Before we let you go, there are about 30,000 federal civilian employees in Michigan. What are you hearing from constituents who are worried about the president's threat to continue laying off furloughed federal workers?
MCCLAIN: Yeah. They're really worried.
MARTIN: I think you have about 8,000 in your district alone.
MCCLAIN: Yeah. We do, and they're frustrated because we shouldn't be in this position to begin with. That's why the Democrats need to stop using the federal workers as political pawns and open up the government. We could have fixed this, and we should never have been in this situation to begin with. But here we are because Democrats are continuing to play games with the American people. Listen...
MARTIN: I...
MCCLAIN: ...President Trump - go ahead.
MARTIN: No - sorry, we're almost out of time. I do hope you'll come back. That's...
MCCLAIN: Thank you so much.
MARTIN: ...Republican representative Lisa McClain...
MCCLAIN: OK.
MARTIN: ...Of Michigan, chair of the House Republican Conference. Thank you so much.
MCCLAIN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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