If I were to say the words “Do’h!” or “excellent,” or “okely, dokely, neighborino!” You know what I'm talking about, right? Of course, it's “The Simpsons,” good for you. Now, longtime viewers of that show know this, but for that one person out there who doesn't…“The Simpsons” is a spin-off. Back when Fox was just getting going, one of the programs they offered was “The Tracy Ullman Show.” And “The Tracy Ullman Show” had these little animated vignettes featuring Bart, Lisa, Homer. and Marge, and the rest is history. Emmy award-winning actor Carrie Preston knows a little bit about spin-offs. She played Ophelia in the Alabama Shakespeare Festival's production of “Hamlet” back in 1994. But, she's come a long way since then. Arguably, you could say her big break was playing Elsbeth Tascioni in the CBS series “The Good Wife” and "The Good Fight." That's where she got her Emmy for Best Guest Performer. But now, she's the star of the spin-off series, "Elsbeth." We'll talk to her about her days in Alabama and more coming up on APR notebook.
PAT—Carrie Preston, thank you so much for joining me on APR notebook.
CARRIE PRESTON: It's my pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.
PAT-- When you go to the website of the Alabama Shakespeare Festival, there's a certain page where there's a whole bunch of little videos, and they're from actors who have worked there, yourself included. And they get to recite a famous monologue by the bard. Your choice was Titania from act two, scene one of “A Midsummer Night's Dream.” I'm going to butcher it if I do it, so I'm not going to even try. But it starts off with, “…these, are the forgeries of jealousy.” And I'm wondering why did, why did that appeal to you?
PRESTON-- Well, it's a beautiful piece of writing, and it very much talks about things that are close to my heart, which are, you know, being out in nature. See, seeing the power of nature. You know, Mother Earth, the sort of supernatural kind of qualities of nature, what nature can do. I had the great fortune of playing that role when I was in in in acting school at Julliard. And so it's one of my fondest memories of when I was there at Julliard at that time. And you know, I think they were the costumes for that were, we were painted head to toe blue body paint. I had these like gauzy, this gauzy, flowy material that was over the top of this body makeup. And, you know, it was a really transformational performance that I got to do, and so that was also appealing to me. So, you know, you pick the you pick the pieces that that speak to you, and then the language carries you to places that you didn't even dream of.
PAT—So, for the Alabama Shakespeare Festival, I mean your first, your first go around with them was, was Hamlet, and you portrayed Ophelia. I understand it was your brother who talked you into this?
PRESTON-- Yeah, my brother, John Preston, was a resident actor down there for many years, and he was part of their company. And so, you know, every season, he would do nine months of of classical theater, and then he would, it was kind of like academia. He would then have three months off, and then he would go back in and do it again. And so when I got out of graduate school. He said, hey, you know, they're doing Hamlet down here. You should audition and see if you, you know, maybe could get the role of Ophelia, and then you could come and we could hang out together. He had already been cast as Horatio, so I auditioned, luckily, got cast as Ophelia, which is a, again, a very challenging but wonderful role, and not realizing that I was going to meet the guy who was playing Guildenstern and get a massive crush on him, and then end up marrying him, and we've been together ever since. So coming up on about 31 years together since we first met, doing that play.
PAT-- Oh, congratulations. Of course, we're referring to Michael Emerson. Mrs. Duggins, and I huge fans of his work on “Person of Interest.” But of course, obviously, the pinnacle of his career had to have been playing the corrupt judge Milton Crawford on "Elsbeth." What was it like having him on set like that?
PRESTON-- We've worked together before. I came on his shows, I came on “Person of Interest.” I recurred on his show. I played the love of his life, but we'd never played adversaries before. So that's always fun. You know, that's the most delicious writing. It's the stuff that you want to play. Because there's, there's conflict and there's, you know, really wonderful turns of phrases. And there's, there's something that is more heightened when you're playing an adversary. It just as an actor is something that you want. You know conflict is what makes drama work best. And so you know to be in a relationship with him that is so far in a way, different from our real life relationship was, you know, just a treat, and it's always really fun, because Michael obviously is such a brilliant actor. The, you know, the two of us, we just trust each other inherently. So we weren't sitting around rehearsing together or anything like that, you know, we, we maybe ran the lines on the car ride over to make sure we, you know, knew, knew the words and stuff pretty well, and then just showed up the way I would with any other great actor, of which we get a lot on, Elsbeth. And then just let him bring his level of genius to the table, and then try to match him, you know, wit for wit and and that was really exciting. And then we would, you know, we working with the great directors, and, you know, they would give us great things to play. And so, you know, at the end of the day, we would go home and then just kind of snuggle it off.
PAT-- You know, I read an article where Michael said he was terrified on set, and I have a hard time believing that. Did you do that vibe from him at all?
PRESTON-- I think it's probably he wanted to make sure that he was doing well by me. You know, he knew this was, this was, you know, I'm the lead of this show, and all the crew you know, watching him and watching us together, and, you know, just wanting to make sure that, you know you rise to that. And of course, he does every time. But you know it, I think something be wrong with us if we didn't feel nervous walking on to a new situation. You know that that's what means you care, and it wants makes you work harder.
PAT-- Getting back to your time with the Shakespeare Festival. You know, obviously, I'm not an actor and I'm not trained in your craft. But I have bought, tickets and sat through shows in the past, and I like to think that I'm smart enough to know when I've seen something special. And, this is what I'm getting to... back in 1982 a college-aged me got to see Othello with James Earl Jones and Christopher Plummer. Now, those were the big names. But two up-and-comers in the cast were Kelsey Grammer and Dianne Wiest (who recently was a guest star on "Elsbeth.") And when I think back on that show, I spend more time thinking about Kelsey and Diane than seeing (the actors who played) Darth Vader and Captain Von Trapp. I know that it's asking a lot, but you know from people who saw you in Montgomery in 1994 or other you know dramatic performances in theater and elsewhere before your star really started to rise. I mean, what are people like in terms of, like, 'oh my gosh, I remember seeing you before you were really big and famous' and all that.
PRESTON-- Yeah, I think it is, you know, I always like to think that when you're in the room with a show that is hitting you in a way that's special, in a way you should think of it as a privilege, you know, as a privilege to be in the room with someone like James Earl Jones. There aren't, there aren't very many people who can say that they saw that what you saw, you know, and that's what makes theater so special, is that it it's not available to stream 24/7, it is happening live in your life, right in front of you, and if you have you know somebody that struck you Well, that's a win for you and for whoever that actor was. So you know Dianne Wiest. I mean, she's a legend, you know, but you have to start somewhere, you know. And I find that Shakespeare was the best way to start, the best way to train, you know, people say, Oh, well, if you can play Beethoven, you can certainly play a jingle. It's sort of like if you can play Shakespeare, then, you know, you might have a shot of TV. And so, you know, I like to think that people saw me at that time, when I was in Alabama, and thought, Oh, I see some promise in this, this young woman. And you know, she made me think differently about that role of Ophelia. And I tried to bring my, you know, level of understanding at that time and and tried to create a unique portrayal of that. I do have people shortly, shortly after I did that, and I was in New York, I made my New York stage debut doing the Tempest, which was Shakespeare, obviously. With the great Patrick Stewart, and I played Miranda, and I really tried to do something different with that role than what is normally done. And I do, you know, and that was in 1995 and I do have people who still say, Oh, I will never forget seeing that performance and seeing what you did with that role. And so, you know, I take that with a great amount of humility and a great amount of gratitude.
PAT-- And so it's an obvious point, but I'll ask it anyway, during your career, did anybody ever say Alabama? Are you “slug nutty?” Are you crazy?
PRESTON-- Yes, I know a lot of people don't believe that there is such a thing as Alabama Shakespeare Festival. It sounds like these two things shouldn't go together. If you build it, they will come. And people came, and it became, you know, something that was quite respected in the American theater. And I'm very proud to be part of that legacy and to be connected with, you know, my brother, who was, you know, a way bigger part of that legacy than I was, and so it's like in the family, and my husband too, and I, you know, about six years ago, got to go back there and direct a play there, and that was, like, you know, really full circle for Me, because it was a play. It was called, it's called “Buzz” by Susan Ferrara, and it's loosely based or inspired by the real life of Mary Ann “Buzz” Goodbody, who was one of only a handful of female directors in the 1970s in all of the UK, and she famously directed a production of Hamlet. So that play buzz really drew upon this play, Hamlet, that, of course, was the play that brought me to Alabama, Shakespeare. So it was a really nice full circle moment for me to do that play there.
PAT-- Yeah, didn't I read that “Buzz” was kind of like a pioneer of using, like, you know, multiracial casting.
PRESTON-- Yeah, she was a pioneer, you know, she she created an alternative space it had normally been used for costume storage. She turned it into a theatrical space with the blessings of RSC (Royal Shakespeare Company.) And, she famously directed a then unknown company member in the title role, and that was Ben Kingsley. And normally, you know, you wouldn't have cast somebody who was "brown" in that role. You know, at that time, she also did it modern dress, and it went to on to inspire a lot of directors beyond myself, included when I directed the play “Buzz” at Alabama Shakespeare Festival. And in, you know, to honor buzz, Marianne “Buzz” Goodbody, I staged that production in Alabama Shakespeare festival's scene shop, which, of course, the audience had never been in before. And so to put a piece of theater in an alternative space was, you know, very much in her spirit. And it was a really special experience. And again, I hope that the people who did get to see it are still thinking about it fondly.
PAT-- As I understand part, part of the story of “Buzz” is a woman trying to move ahead in a well, what I understand is still a male dominated industry. And again, I'm not an actor or anything like that, but I'm kind of like, I hear the stories, and I'm like, you know, is it getting better in terms of, like, being able to do things, being able to be paid fairly, that sort of thing for all people who do what you do?
PRESTON-- Yeah, I'd like to think that we have, you know, made some strides, certainly since buzz's time, and that was in the 70s. So, you know, there are a lot more female directors and playwrights, etc, but certainly still outnumbered by men and and, you know, there's a peril to hitting the glass ceiling over and over and over again. Certainly there was for “Buzz,” and least that's how you know, Susan Farrar, the playwright, chose to interpret, you know, her life again. It wasn't, it's not a documentary play, but it was really like using the way Shakespeare used his plays as allegories for things that were happening in his time, you know, Susan was using the play “Buzz” to talk about, you know, things that happen still to this day in our time. And unfortunately, I feel like we're in a time where we we might be regressing a little bit and rights for women and in, in, in sort of equal rights, in in all aspects. So I think you know, the battle is still ahead, but I do feel proud that our the industry, including theater, is really trying to improve on that. And. And getting women more opportunities.
PAT-- And I'm going to make a Shakespeare analogy here, which means I'm either going to look very smart or very silly very quickly. Are you ready?
PRESTON—Yes!
PAT-- Here we go. Okay, all right. Shakespeare wrote “Henry the IV” parts one and two. There was a sidebar character there, John Falstaff, and apparently the audiences loved him so much. So much. So the story goes, That's why Shakespeare said, ‘Hey, I'm gonna give people what they want.’ And along came the "Merry Wives of Windsor." Fast forward to "Elsbeth." Now, if I'm getting, if I'm getting my time right here… did not show up until, like, what? Episode 20 of season 1 of “The Good Wife,” right? Didn't show up at all in season two. And then became a regular for the rest of the run of the show. And now we're starring in "Elsbeth." So I'm kind of like, you know, I guess it's really great having the audience in your in your corner, I suppose then, right?
PRESTON-- It is, it is very helpful. But, you know, I mean, it's also a miracle too, because it's, it's miraculous when any show gets made, it there's so much that goes in to them, and then to have a character that has existed now in three different universes, "Good Wife," "Good fight," and now "Elsbeth" is, you know, pretty rare. I mean, guess there was Frasier, was in cheers, and then Frasier, and then the second Frasier. So I guess there's that, but there, there aren't a lot of characters that that have that you can say have done that. So it really is, I don't know it's like I said, it's just extraordinary to me, but it does make me happy to think that people who are watching "Elsbeth" and really liking "Elsbeth" may or may not have ever even seen the good wife or the good fight that Robert and Michelle King and who created the show and now Jonathan Tolins, who is our showrunner and the head of our writers room, understand that this is a its own thing. It's not married to these other shows. It's not even a legal show. The first those first two shows are law shows. This is a police procedural, so I think everybody was really smart and how they transitioned this character into her own show by not trying to live up to something that fans became really attached to in “The Good Wife” and “Good Fight.” But, you know, taking it to a whole nother place. And I think it happened at the right time. I think it's a time when people are wanting to, you know, watch shows that make them feel good about things, to make them feel like there's justice in the world, to have some laughs, to watch a character that is, you know, seasoned, but still so curious and so has a childlike wonder and a positive view on the world and that that's something that is, you know, very practiced on her part. It's studied on her it's intentional on her part.
PAT-- We talked earlier about working with costumers in terms of, like, you know, the body paint and the wigs and working the slides and all this. Do you pick out your costumes for "Elsbeth?"
PRESTON-- Oh, no, I we work with, I work with a brilliant costume designer, Daniel Lawson. He is one of, one of our finest in the industry. He, he started, or actually, I met Dan when we were both little babies. We were he was a prop intern and I was a non- Equity Actor at the Utah Shakespeare Festival. This was 1989 and so to see that now this is what we're both doing. You know that we're creating this stuff together, and that kind of history is not lost on me. You know, he's, he's the one who he started with “The Good Wife,” and so he's been costuming "Elsbeth" since her very first appearance, and and now that he's got her at the center of a show, he really understands how to use the costumes to throw off, you know, the killers like they see all this color and all this pattern and all this interest, and they get distracted, and they think they don't, shouldn't have to take this woman very seriously. And meanwhile, she's gonna bring them to justice, and they have no idea. But he does that every episode and we have incredible fittings together at the beginning of each season. Sometimes we'll have like, a nine hour fitting where I'm just trying on clothes for nine hours.
PAT-- Did he come up with the idea of the super sized handbags?
PRESTON—That came out that was at the very beginning? And yes, he in conjunction with one of the producers and directors of “The Good Wife” came up with that they'd wanted Elsbeth to always have a million things going on, personify, buy all of these bags, and not just stock. And now it's I feel like I don't really fully have the character unless I've got. You know, three tote bags at some point, although, you know, careful what you wish for, because those tote bags can get pretty heavy after, you know, you do a scene for 12 hours, and you're putting them on and off and on and off and on and off. So that's taken some getting used to on the good wife and good fight. I was only on the show, you know, maybe once or twice a year. Now I'm every day, you know, with these bags. So they're a blessing most of the time, and then sometimes they're quite the curse.
PAT-- Different subject. One of the things we do at Alabama Public Radio is that we mentor journalism students from the University of Alabama. And one fellow, one of the very first young people that I ever worked with here. You may know him. You probably don't, but anyway, his name is David Kumbroch. He's the Director of Science Communication for the Michael J Fox Foundation for Parkinson's Research in Colorado Springs. And I've read extensively about how this is a subject you know, Parkinson's research that you've chosen to champion, what got you into that?
PRESTON-- Well, unfortunately, my father had Parkinson's, and he had it for quite a long time before he passed away. And so, you know, I really saw, you know what it the toll that it took on on him and on those around him. And I also had the great fortune at the beginning of my career to work with Michael J Fox, right after he got diagnosed. It was pretty early on, and I saw, you know, what he was doing already, even back then, to bring attention and awareness. And what he has done and his organization has done since then is really extraordinary. I mean, we've made great strides. They've made incredible strides in research, and, you know, potential cures, or certainly, you know stuff that can help people who have it to deal with their symptoms, and just the research and is necessary with something like that, and and you see how many people I have friends who are touched with it and and have to deal with it and are dealing with the challenges of it. It's it's more prevalent than one would think. And so I think the more we can shine a light on it and get that research funding, the better for you know, people in the future who are going to have to deal with it.
PAT-- And I can only imagine that, you know, not only just the patients, but their families, appreciate what you do. If I get my dates right, I hope that I am your father was still with you when you won your Prime-time Emmy Award back in 2013. Am I right on that?
PRESTON-- That is correct, yeah.
PAT-- Did he have to say anything fatherly afterwards that comes to mind?
PRESTON-- Well, he had, you know, huge, a huge photo of me with the statue, you know, then in his house. And every time anyone would come, you know, he would point it out. And he was my dad, you know, it's always, was always very, very proud of all three of his kids. And what we all you know, what we did and what we chose to do with our lives. And you know, when you're a young person and you want to get into the arts, you know, you hear these stories about a lot of parents who want to talk you out of that, who want to tell you that you can't make a living that way, or you need to get a day job, or you need a real job, or you're never going to be able to make a living that way. You know, there's a lot of discouraging things, because I think parents get scared. You know, they get scared when their their kid says, you know, this is my passion? Well, my dad, who was a who was a geotechnical engineer, it wasn't like he was even in the arts. He got that. It was something that my brother and I, you know, who have chosen to become actors and go into the field of acting, were passionate about.
PAT -- Well, again, not being an actor. But if, for those who might have forgotten, I mean, when you when you won your Emmy, you were up against, if I get this right, Jane Fonda, Diana Rigg, Margo Martindale, Linda Cardellini, and Joan Cusack. Now again, I'm not an actor, but if I was there on Emmy night facing names like that, I think my reaction would be…eeep.
PRESTON-- I did not think that I was going to win. Generally, that award does go to, you know, the guest it was get. The award was Guest Actress in a Drama. And generally, that would go to a more recognizable name. So it meant a lot to me that the you know, my colleagues, that people in this industry, had watched my work and thought that I was worthy of such a thing, you know, so it's, it's a thrilling moment. I mean, I don't think my feet touched the ground for several years after that, because it was, you know, really humbling, but also very. Very heady experience, you know, to all of a sudden you hear your name, and then you're on stage giving a speech, and you're seeing, you know, they give you a certain amount of time to give that speech, and, you know, I had rehearsed it in case I had the great fortune of winning. But you're looking at the clock. They they count down in the back, you know, the numbers are going down, and you're like, oh my gosh, am I going to get it all out? And thankfully, I did, with the sigh of relief. And then two seconds later, you know, I'm standing there holding it backstage, and I'm like, I don't even know who came up and drove that bus, but it certainly wasn't me.
PAT-- As we start to wrap up our talk here, I was wondering, you know, you directed buzz. Any any thoughts that you know at some point you like to do more of that down the road. What do you think?
PRESTON-- I love directing. I've been directing in the past several years television. I really love the episodic world. I you know, I certainly do a lot of it in front of the camera, and so I feel like I can use everything that I learned in front of the camera and bring it behind the camera. I don't know if I'm quite ready to direct an episode of Elsbeth, just because I'm on camera so much, it would be I would feel a little schizophrenic. That said People do it all the time, and, you know, maybe down the line, when I feel like I can take on those two things, wear both of those hats, I'll do that. But otherwise, I do love to be considered for other, you know, shows and as far as theater goes, I would love to take “Buzz” somewhere else. I've been trying to get “Buzz” a production in New York, but it's just harder, you know, to I want to do it in an alternative space. And so Susan Ferrara, the playwright, and I, we're constantly looking and we're constantly talking to other theaters and friends and stuff, and I feel like sometime that's going to happen.
PAT—Well, Carrie Preston, thank you so much for joining me on “APR notebook.”
PRESTON-- It is so nice to meet you and thanks for having me.
PAT-- You can listen again to every episode of “APR Notebook” by going to apr.org or wherever you get your podcasts. “APR Notebook” is a production of Alabama Public Radio, if you like, go to apr.org and become a member. Those dollars make our award-winning journalism possible. The student interns in the APR newsroom are Samantha Triana, Chris Ahlf, Lourdes Duran, Emily Ahern, Leo Swager, Audrey Zimmerman, Brooke Goodrich, Logan Fitzpatrick, Lila Jane Bonds, and Matt Moran. I'm Pat Duggins. We'll see you next time on “APR notebook.”
