JOHNNIE AYCOCK: Every breakthrough, every innovation, every bold idea shaping our future begins with curiosity and the people willing to follow it.
LISA JONES: From research labs to manufacturing, from discarded materials to the next generation of design, this is BrightPath.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: Where science meets creativity, and ideas come to life.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: Most of us rarely stop to think about where our food comes from. Who are the people quietly working behind the scenes to make sure it's safe, sustainable, and available for generations to come?
LISA JONES: That's right, Johnnie. You know, every meal tells a story. It's a story of farmers, researchers, educators, processors, truck drivers, veterinarians, and innovators. They're working together so families can gather around the table with confidence.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: Across Alabama, there are researchers whose work rarely makes the news, yet their impact is felt every single day. They strengthen communities, support family businesses, protect natural resources, and help provide a safe, dependable food supply.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: Hello, everyone. I'm Johnnie Aycock.
LISA JONES: And I'm Lisa Jones, and this is BrightPath.
LISA JONES: Today, we are honored to welcome Dr. Luke Roy, Extension Professor in Auburn University's School of Fisheries, Aquaculture, and Aquatic Sciences, and Assistant School Director of Operations at the Alabama Fish Farming Center in Greensboro.
His work connects Auburn University's research directly with Alabama's catfish producers, helping solve challenges involving fish health, water quality, environmental stewardship, production efficiency, and the long-term success of one of Alabama's signature agricultural industries.
Dr. Roy, welcome to BrightPath.
DR. LUKE ROY: It's great to be here.
LISA JONES: Thank you so much for coming.
Let's begin. Honestly, I have come to believe that a land-grant university doesn't just create knowledge; it actually shares that knowledge where it's needed most.
So, Luke, would you please define Auburn University's three-part mission for our listeners and break down, especially, the third component of that mission, which is Extension?
DR. LUKE ROY: Sure. I'd be happy to do that. Land-grant universities have three missions: research, teaching, and Extension.
The third component, Extension, involves taking education and knowledge to local communities. There are 67 counties in the state of Alabama.
LISA JONES: Right.
DR. LUKE ROY: My role as an Extension Professor at Auburn is to take that education and the new technologies that are developed to stakeholders throughout the state and into these different communities.
Being in the School of Fisheries, my largest stakeholder group is the catfish industry.
LISA JONES: Exactly. So, what is it that you actually do there? You're stationed in Greensboro, right there in Hale County?
DR. LUKE ROY: Yes. I'm stationed off campus. We're about three hours from the Auburn University campus.
The Alabama Fish Farming Center was established in 1982 as catfish farming in the state of Alabama began to grow. Farmers needed more direct assistance from Auburn University, and since the distance was so great, the Alabama Fish Farming Center was established through Auburn and a number of different entities to help provide that support.
It gave us boots on the ground here in West Alabama, where the farms are located.
JOHNNIE AYOCK: West Alabama, particularly the Black Belt, is rich in catfish production. Could you talk a little bit about why the Extension service is so important to those farmers and how that particular industry has grown over the years?
DR. LUKE ROY: Yes, sir. Catfish really began to take off in Alabama around 1960.
It grew well because of the climate here in Alabama, the relatively flat land, and the soils, which were conducive to building ponds. We also have a lot of aquatic resources here, along with people who were already familiar with farming.
All of those factors came together at the right time, and the industry began expanding throughout the state during the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s.
At its peak, there were more than 200 catfish farms in Alabama. In 2003, we had approximately 26,000 acres in production in the state. That was the peak.
Since then, the industry has diminished somewhat, not just in Alabama but in other catfish-producing states as well.
However, Alabama is still the second-largest producer of U.S. farm-raised catfish. U.S. farm-raised catfish is also the largest aquaculture sector in the United States.
We're behind Mississippi, which is number one. We're number two, and we produce just under 100 million pounds of catfish each year in Alabama. That contributes just under $500 million to the state's economy, largely centered in the West Alabama region.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: Why West Alabama? That seems to be where the concentration of most of the catfish farms are. Is there something unique about West Alabama?
DR. LUKE ROY: Yes. The Black Belt region here in West Alabama is known for its rich soils. Those soils are very conducive to building ponds and holding water.
So the landscape is very much suited for aquaculture. Just like the Delta region of Mississippi and Arkansas, West Alabama and East Mississippi include that Black Belt region. It's a very fertile area, and the soils are particularly well suited for putting in ponds.
LISA JONES: I want to circle back to something you mentioned earlier. You said the industry had peaked. What year did you say that was?
DR. LUKE ROY: 2003.
LISA JONES: 2003. What would account for the decline in the number of catfish farms in Alabama and everywhere else? You mentioned Mississippi as well. Is that correct?
DR. LUKE ROY: That's right. In 2003, we had more than 1,200 catfish farms in the United States. Right now, we have fewer than 400.
So we've had about a 75% reduction.
LISA JONES: Oh, wow. What accounts for that? Do we know what's happening?
DR. LUKE ROY: There are a number of different factors. One of the main ones is seafood imports.
We consume about 80% of our seafood in this country through imports. So we eat a lot more seafood that comes from other countries than we raise here.
What's happened is that some competitive products, particularly pangasius, an Asian catfish marketed as basa, tra, or whitefish, have gained a lot of our market share over that period of time.
At this point, I believe that in 2025, approximately 330 million pounds of pangasius were imported into the United States. We also produced more than 300 million pounds of catfish in this country.
So about half of the catfish consumed or purchased in the United States would have been imported product.
LISA JONES: Okay. I know there's an economic component here that Johnnie is definitely going to cover, but I want to ask you something really quickly.
Could you break down the differences between foreign imports and farm-raised catfish here in Alabama and Mississippi? Let's just say stateside. What are some of the fundamental differences?
DR. LUKE ROY: In this country, we have a lot of standards that we have to uphold. We have environmental standards, and we have organizations like the FDA, USDA, and EPA.
All of those organizations are in place largely for our own safety. In this case, when we're talking about the food we consume, they're there for food safety purposes.
We're very strict about how we raise our products here.
For example, the Monterey Bay Aquarium rates U.S. farm-raised catfish as Super Green, which is its highest rating.
LISA JONES: Wow!
DR. LUKE ROY: The other fish, pangasius, which is raised overseas, doesn't receive that high of a rating on their scale.
Part of the reason is that it's raised under conditions that aren't considered as environmentally friendly.
Some of these countries can use techniques or products that we're not allowed to use here in the United States. Labor is also cheaper overseas in many of these countries.
At the end of the day, you have a product coming in that's priced significantly lower.
For example, if you look at a four-pound box of catfish, pangasius will probably average at least $2 per pound less than the U.S. product. Sometimes it's even more than that, depending on the market.
When times are tough, and we're all aware of the inflation that's going on, food costs more money. Ultimately, consumers have to make a choice: Do they want to pay more for U.S. farm-raised product, or do they want to purchase a product that was raised overseas?
And it's not just individual families making those decisions at the grocery store. Restaurants and food-service companies are also selling catfish.
A restaurant's profit margin on a plate of catfish made with some of these imported products can be considerably higher.
So those are decisions made at the individual family level or at the business level for profitability purposes.
We've struggled to compete with a product that's so much cheaper than ours, even though we believe we're raising a better product.
LISA JONES: Are they subsidized?
DR. LUKE ROY: Yes, in other countries, they are.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: You know, the economics are simple. They're benefiting from lower labor costs, but the quality is lower, too.
And this may not be a fair question, but Luke, at the federal level, are there things we can be doing as a nation, and even as a state, to move the needle in the other direction and create a more competitive situation for Alabama-grown catfish and Mississippi-grown catfish?
Are there things we need to be doing or considering?
DR. LUKE ROY: There are a lot of things we can be proactive about at the government agency level.
For instance, the state of Alabama has a country-of-origin labeling law. In restaurants, you're supposed to state on the wall or on the menu whether you're serving a U.S. farm-raised product or identify the country of origin of the fish you're selling. That applies to products such as fish and shrimp.
That can sometimes be effective.
I think Louisiana is probably the best at that. They're very protective of their farm-raised products, their Gulf seafood, and their commercial fishing industry, including wild-caught products.
Alabama has also been fighting that fight, and I think we're gaining some ground at the federal level.
There are other things happening, too. For instance, in 2026, the USDA Farm Service Agency has an Emergency Livestock Assistance Program that's now offering payments to farmers for losses caused by bird depredation.
That's an important step forward.
LISA JONES: They can't protect themselves from those natural predators, are they allowed to?
DR. LUKE ROY: No, they can't.
And that's another factor contributing to the challenges we've been facing. Imports are one issue, but bird depredation is another. There are several other factors as well.
A recent study conducted by Mississippi State revealed that, in the Mississippi Delta region, bird depredation costs farmers approximately $896 per acre in direct losses from fish consumption.
But farmers are also spending a lot of money trying to keep birds off their farms. They have to pay people to run the birds off, purchase pyrotechnics and ammunition to scare them away, and cover other expenses.
There are additional costs associated with wear and tear on trucks and roads.
All of that adds up to more than $350 per acre just for scaring birds away.
When you combine those figures, you're looking at approximately $1,200 per acre. That's a lot of money when you're working so hard to make a living.
LISA JONES: Yeah. They work really hard.
DR. LUKE ROY: They really do. And they're facing other challenges, including disease, inflation, increased production costs, and higher feed costs.
All of those things work against us as we try to sustain the industry in this state.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: For a farmer, this is a 24-hour-a-day job.
We've had a chance to look at the actual process of a catfish haul, and we've visited the farms. It's an extensive operation.
You're driving down into Hale County, and it's really beautiful. You see beautiful ponds and all these white birds everywhere. But those birds aren't necessarily a good thing.
We became so aware of the intensity of the operation. But this industry is a lifeline in West Alabama.
DR. LUKE ROY: It is. There are more than 2,000 people employed in the catfish industry in West Alabama.
We have a couple of processing plants, a couple of feed mills, and farms located throughout the region. There are also other businesses benefiting from the presence of this industry.
Money is being spent to operate these businesses, and the industry supports a lot of people. It is definitely a challenge.
On the bird depredation issue, for example, it's really frustrating for farmers.
You put so much time into raising a crop, and then winter comes around. These birds migrate down from the north, from Canada.
On some farms, we've documented as many as 8,000 or more double-crested cormorants on a single farm. That's the main bird issue we deal with.
They can eat a pound of fish in a day.
When you consider the number of birds and the availability of fish in those ponds, it's a significant problem. Farmers are losing money they could otherwise be making.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: Yeah, that's significant. It's a real wildlife conflict.
LISA JONES: So, there's no netting or anything you could put over the ponds to cover them?
DR. LUKE ROY: Well, these ponds are often very large. They may be 10 or 20 acres.
In some other aquaculture industries that use smaller bodies of water, such as hatcheries where they have baby fish in smaller ponds, you can cover those ponds.
Some people use streamers stretched across lines to discourage birds from landing on ponds. That's done in other aquaculture industries, such as largemouth bass production.
But it's very difficult in the catfish industry because of the size of the ponds and the access farmers need to them.
LISA JONES: You said something earlier that caught my attention. I heard you mention feed, and I'd like to know a little bit more about that.
What's the difference between the way U.S. farm-raised catfish are fed and the way imported catfish are fed?
DR. LUKE ROY: Most aquaculture industries, including catfish farming, can use plant-based feed.
One thing that separates U.S. products from some of the products raised overseas is the ingredients used in the feed.
Our feed contains U.S. farm-raised soybeans and U.S. corn.
LISA JONES: That's a win... That's another win.
DR. LUKE ROY: Exactly. As an industry, we support other agricultural commodities, so we're working together.
I think the quality of our soybean products is fairly high. We've exported soybeans and other grains to different parts of the world.
We don't always know the quality of the ingredients being used in some of these other countries. But we do know that the ingredients used by our feed mills here in the United States come from U.S. farms and U.S. row-crop producers. They're very high-quality and consistent.
If you look at catfish feed, a large percentage of it is made up of soybeans...
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: Which is an important crop in Alabama.
LISA JONES: Exactly.
DR. LUKE ROY: So it's a way for us to support other farmers here in the United States, give back to our agricultural community, and raise a healthy, high-quality product.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: Luke, you're pointing out some of the challenges we're facing.
Auburn, of course, is an R1-level research university.
LISA JONES: Thank you. That's exactly where I was wanting to head.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: Looking down the road, is there research underway to create more innovative solutions to some of these challenges?
How is the industry facing these problems? Because they're probably not going to go away. The birds aren't going to leave, and imports aren't going to leave unless we find ways to address some of those competitive issues.
Looking down the road, what is research teaching us about turning the industry around so it can recover and become more competitive?
DR. LUKE ROY: That is a good question. That is an area we've been looking at as the catfish industry has declined in terms of the number of farms over the last 20 years or so.
We've looked at things like increasing production efficiency and feed efficiency through better feeds.
On the production-efficiency side, if you look at the average pounds per acre produced nationally in 2003 compared with the average pounds per acre produced today, we've made significant strides.
In some cases, with certain production technologies, we're producing two or three times as much as we were 20 years ago.
Those are some ways we can offset the challenges we're facing.
We have a lot of issues to deal with, but if we can be more efficient, we have a fighting chance.
LISA JONES: Okay. I want to talk to you now as an actual research professor on a more granular level. I want to know about the science.
Tell us a little bit about some of the innovations Auburn has helped bring about, such as aeration and other technologies.
DR. LUKE ROY: When catfish farming really started growing, farmers wanted to be able to produce more fish.
Before we had aerators, production was much more limited. Now, if you've been to a catfish farm—
LISA JONES: Oh, yeah.
DR. LUKE ROY: You've seen the aerators in the ponds. Auburn, through one of its professors, made important contributions to that technology.
His name was Dr. Claude Boyd, who's considered the father of water quality and aquaculture.
He's a very well-known researcher. He's in his mid-80s now, and he still comes in and does a little teaching.
He helped develop some of the aerators that are used today. That's one of Auburn's major contributions.
Another contribution is hybrid catfish, which is a cross between a female channel catfish and a male blue catfish.
Hybrid catfish are grown more heavily in Mississippi and Arkansas than here in Alabama, although we do have farmers who raise them. About 20% of Alabama's production is hybrids.
Auburn was also instrumental in developing this hybrid, which can grow faster in some cases, has a shorter production season, and is resistant to certain diseases.
So there have been a number of contributions.
More recently, we've been doing a lot of research on bird depredation, working alongside Virginia Tech, Mississippi State, and other land-grant universities.
Our research has been used by politicians and national associations, such as the Catfish Farmers of America and the National Aquaculture Association, to support policy changes and regulatory improvements.
That research data has also helped advocate for additional assistance through programs such as ELAP.
Collectively, what we try to do is work closely with the farms.
A lot of the work we've done at the Alabama Fish Farming Center, both during my career and through the work of others stationed there, involves conducting research directly with producers.
We try to do the research on the farms rather than only at the university.
You can transfer technology from a university to a farm, but when you work together directly, you can sometimes eliminate that extra step and make progress much faster.
For example, with the bird research we've conducted, farmers have opened their farms to us so we can collect data and count how many fish the birds are eating.
In some cases, they've also shared their economic records so we can track expenses and other costs.
It's really a collaborative effort involving farmers, researchers, and Extension professionals, along with politicians and national aquaculture associations.
We work together to make progress, improve the industry, and help it survive.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: I want to circle back to something we discussed earlier because I think one of the most important elements of Auburn University is the Extension service.
LISA JONES: Exactly.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: Sixty-seven counties, with Extension offices serving every county...
LISA JONES: Yes, mad respect for that.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: It's my understanding that Extension was originally established to help farmers by providing local services. But the Extension service is so much more than that now.
Not only does it serve the agricultural community, but Extension also works with economic development in the communities it serves. It provides resources, mentoring, and 4-H clubs. There are so many different services.
Could you tell our audience, from your perspective, about the impact of having a 67-county Extension service? You're there where the people are, and these services are available to anyone.
DR. LUKE ROY: It's an incredible advantage that we have as citizens of Alabama. It really is.
By having an Extension office in every county, you can go to your local office if you have an aquatic weed growing in your pond and you don't know what it is.
They can contact someone like me or someone on campus to provide assistance, free of charge.
If you have something wrong with one of your cows or chickens, we have people on campus who are Extension specialists and Extension agents with the expertise to provide assistance at the county level.
It's basically a network of experts who are charged with providing help, education, and technology transfer to citizens throughout the state of Alabama.
Every state has an Extension program, although the programs are structured differently.
I'm familiar with several different states. I used to work in Arkansas with the Arkansas Cooperative Extension Service.
The way we do things at Auburn is incredible.
The people we have in Extension are dedicated to serving the citizens of Alabama, and their commitment is very commendable.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: And people don't necessarily have to be involved in agriculture to access those services. Anyone can.
DR. LUKE ROY: Yes, that's correct.
LISA JONES: Often times, these services are especially important in some of our poorest counties.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: Going back to our conversation about the catfish industry, some of the counties that depend on it are among the poorest in Alabama.
That's why this industry is so absolutely vital to their economies. We want it to remain competitive because it truly is a lifeline for so many people.
LISA JONES: It really, really is.
But before we run completely out of time, could we shine a quick spotlight on something?
You know me. I'm Miss Granular over here.
I want to talk a little bit more about aeration. We just mentioned it, but what exactly is aeration in catfish ponds, and why is it so important?
DR. LUKE ROY: Aeration provides dissolved oxygen.
As humans, we breathe oxygen as a gas into our lungs. Fish get oxygen differently. They extract it from the water.
When you're raising fish in a pond, especially when there are a lot of fish in that pond, there's only so much oxygen available.
As the fish grow, the oxygen demand in the pond increases.
There are also things like algae and bacteria that require oxygen and use it in the pond.
During the day, when sunlight is available, photosynthesis takes place and produces oxygen in the pond.
But at night, when there's no sunlight, the oxygen reserves are being used.
An aerator is a way to add oxygen to the water through electricity. We also have tractor-powered PTO aerators that help dissolve oxygen into the water so the fish can breathe.
Aeration allows us to raise more fish, but it also helps prevent the fish from becoming stressed.
If you keep oxygen levels above a certain point, the fish will grow much better. If oxygen levels get too low, the fish can become stressed.
It's similar to what happens to us if we don't get enough oxygen. We become stressed, too!
So aeration provides a steady supply of oxygen to the fish we're raising.
LISA JONES: A steady supply, right? Those oxygen levels are monitored 24/7, right?
DR. LUKE ROY: They are.
Most farmers in the United States use automated oxygen-monitoring systems.
We conducted a survey a couple of years ago, and I believe 97% of the farmers we surveyed were using automated dissolved-oxygen monitoring systems.
Those systems can send you a text message on your phone, call you, or even send an alert to your watch.
You can set different thresholds so that once the oxygen level reaches a certain point or falls below that point, you'll receive an alert.
LISA JONES: Before those systems were available, farmers had to stay up all night monitoring the oxygen levels, right? That's what we were told.
DR. LUKE ROY: Yes, that's correct.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: Before we get out of here, I have one quick question.
How do we, as individuals, as a community, and as a society, support you and help increase funding for research?
LISA JONES We need that question. Yes, perfect.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: Funding for research seems to be a critical part of the formula, whether we're talking about agriculture, catfish farming, or even artificial intelligence.
What do we need to be doing as a state and as a nation to increase support for research?
DR. LUKE ROY: Politics has to take place, so supporting the politicians who support the U.S. aquaculture industry, the catfish industry, and other agricultural industries is important.
Another thing you can do individually or with your family is eat more farm-raised catfish.
Whether you're preparing it at home or ordering it at a restaurant, that support makes a difference.
USCatfish.com is the website for the Catfish Institute. They have hundreds of recipes available, and a lot of them are excellent.
Here in West Alabama, and throughout Alabama, we also have some restaurants that do a really good job preparing catfish.
My favorite is probably Ezell's down in Lavaca.
LISA JONES: oh, heck, yeah!
DR. LUKE ROY: There's a whole catfish trail featuring restaurants that have agreed to serve U.S. farm-raised catfish.
A few that come to mind are Top of the River, which has locations in Anniston, Gadsden, and Guntersville; Odette's in Florence; and Oscar's in Dadeville.
Those are all restaurants serving U.S. farm-raised catfish.
Supporting those businesses is one way we can individually and collectively, as citizens of Alabama, support the U.S. catfish industry.
LISA JONES: That's a great point.
And, you know, on that note, I'm going to say that, of course, we are broadcasting from the University of Alabama. And as Dr. Mohler would say, it's the University for Alabama.
And to that point, I'm just going to say, War Damn Research!
But as always, Roll Tide and Roll Research
And I would also like to say, Dr. Luke Roy, thank you so much for joining us.
DR. LUKE ROY: Thank you. War Eagle.
LISA JONES: We'll say Roll Tide and Roll Research!
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: We're equal-opportunity cheerleaders.
LISA JONES: We are. We are. We are. So I'm going to go ahead and sign us off.
For Johnnie Aycock, I'm Lisa Jones and this is BrightPath.
JOHNNIE AYCOCK: BrightPath is made possible in part by our partners at Alabama Public Radio and by the music of Matt Jones, whose song "This Place" sets the tone for our journey.
Thank you.
